The Snapdragon 865 Performance Preview: Setting the Stage for Flagship Android 2020
by Andrei Frumusanu on December 16, 2019 7:30 AM EST- Posted in
- Mobile
- Qualcomm
- Smartphones
- 5G
- Cortex A77
- Snapdragon 865
System Performance
System performance on the QRD865 was a bit of a tricky topic, as we’ve seen that the same chipset can differ quite a lot depending on the software implementation done by the vendor. For the performance preview this year, Qualcomm again integrated a “Performance” mode on the test devices, alongside the default scheduler and DVFS behaviour of the BSP delivered to vendors.
There’s a fine line between genuine “Performance” modes as implemented on commercial devices such as from Samsung and Huawei, which make tunings to the DVFS and schedulers which increase performance while remaining reasonable in their aggressiveness, and more absurd “cheating” performance modes such as implemented by OPPO for example, which simply ramp up the minimum frequencies of the chip.
Qualcomm’s performance mode on the QRD865 is walking this fine line – it’s extremely aggressive in that it’s ramping up the chipset to maximum frequency in ~30ms. It’s also having the little cores start at a notably higher frequency than in the default mode. Nevertheless, it’s still a legitimate operation mode, although I do not expect very many devices to be configured in this way.
The default mode on the other hand is quite similar to what we’ve seen on the Snapdragon 855 QRD last year, but the issue is that this was also rather conservative and many popular devices such as the Galaxy S10 were configured to be more aggressive. Whilst the default config of the QRD865 should be representative of most devices next year, I do expect many of them to do better than the figures represented by this config.
Starting off with the web browsing test, we’re seeing the big difference in performance scaling between the two chipsets. The test here is mostly sensible to the performance scaling of the A55 cores. The QRD865 in the default more is more conservative than some existing S855 devices, which is why it performs worse in those situations. On the other hand, the performance results of the QRD865 here are also extremely aggressive and receives the best results out there amongst our current device range. I expect commercial devices to fall in somewhere between the two extremes.
The video editing test nowadays is no longer performance sensitive and most devices fall in the same result range.
The writing test is amongst the most important and representative of daily performance of a device, and here the QRD865 does well in both configurations. The Mate 30 Pro with the Kirin 990 is the only other competitive device at this performance level.
The Photo Editing test makes use of RenderScript and GPU acceleration, and here it seems the new QRD865 makes some big improvements. Performance is a step-function higher than previous generation devices.
Finally, the data manipulation test oddly enough falls in middle of the pack for both performance modes. I’m not too sure as to why this is, but we’ve seen the test being quite sensible to scheduler or even OS configurations.
Generally, the QRD865 phone landed at the top of the rankings in PCMark.
Web Benchmarks
The web benchmarks results presented here were somewhat disappointing. The QRD865 really didn’t manage to differentiate itself from the rest of the Android pack even though it was supposed to be roughly 20-25% ahead in theory. I’m not sure what the limitation here is, but the 5-10% increases are well below what we had hoped for. For now, it seems like the performance gap to Apple’s chips remains significant.
System Performance Conclusion
Overall, we expect system performance of Snapdragon 865 devices to be excellent. Commercial devices will likely differ somewhat in terms of their scores as I do not expect them to be configured exactly the same as the QRD865. I was rather disappointed with the web benchmarks as the improvements were quite meagre – in hindsight it might be a reason as to why Arm didn’t talk about them at all during the Cortex-A77 launch.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
178 Comments
View All Comments
sweetca - Wednesday, December 18, 2019 - link
Many comments, likely authored by data driven nerds (similar to me) are doing their best to ignore the facts: Years ago, Apple took the performance crown, and still wears it today. Inevitably, one day, someone will usurp Apple's position, but that day does not appear to be soon.Every comment which offers an explanation or justification as to 'why' Apple holds the top position, intrinsically agrees that they so do.
Lolimaster - Wednesday, December 18, 2019 - link
So QC did the same as samsung, just add vanilla ARM cores to their soc, all this years with "custom" core for almost zero gain but tons of problems at certain gens.MagicMonkeyBoy - Thursday, December 19, 2019 - link
I bought an iPhone 11 pro max. I took the thing back. A13 is way over rated. I don't believe these bench marks. The 865 is a better. Pubg is not good on the iPhone 11 pro max. The previous iPhone allowed you to set the graphics setting higher than the current settings available on the iPhone 11 pro max.Also the ram management is apauling.
When playing Pubg longer than 10 minutes. The phone heats upto 50 degrees Celsius. Hot 🔥.
Then it gets worse. Four out of six cores shut down. Throttling.
And the quality of the game just deteriorates.
The A13 is actually only a 5% increase over the A12.
The 865 when using other bench marks such as a truly cross compatible such as Speed Test G actually reveals that the 865 beats the A13.
https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-865-be...
Gary explains is a better comparison. And more accurate.
I am now waiting for an 865 handset.
These tests seem like some sort of laboratory test instead of a real world test.
The SoC's have been designed knowing what kind of other peripherals are attached.
Amazing... When using the iPhone 11 pro max... You guys make me laugh. For something with such high statistical measurements in comparison to other SoC's. Only makes the A13 look even more foolish.
Take an 855+... When I use a realme x2 pro. When I use the same apps as what was on my iPhone 11 pro max. The realme x2 pro with its 855+ processor on board absolutely runs circles round the iPhone 11 pro max.
For something that is supposedly such high in Specs. Just makes the phone seem even more confounding. And even more humiliating.
When it comes to gaming. 855+ or definately the 865...
A13 in the iPhone 11 pro max is to be avoided for heavy gamers.
And we all know that the flagship snapdragons make better processors for gamers. Which requires optimal CPU's.
Sorry. But as a gamer. These benchmarks are not accurate or realistic at all. More like a laboratory benchmark.
I used to design chipsets and pcbs. At a discrete government laboratory. These benchmarks have a huge amount of discrepancies.
The 865 is overall actually a better SoC than the A13. It is way more dynamic than the A13.
joms_us - Thursday, December 19, 2019 - link
Finally, someone with great understanding and experience on how to properly rate a phone. They don't realize, CPU alone cannot function properly without the help of other modules or components. iPhone 11 is like a PC with i7-9900 + GT 2060 + 3GB DDR4-2400 while Android phone is like Ryzen 3900X + GTX 2080Ti + 2x4GB DDR4-3200The Garden Variety - Thursday, December 19, 2019 - link
"I used to design chipsets and pcbs. At a discrete government laboratory. These benchmarks have a huge amount of discrepancies."Even taking into consideration the rapid decline of comment quality on AT, this... is next level. Kudos, MagicMonkeyBoy, may your crazy never burn out. A++, would read again.
cha0z_ - Friday, December 27, 2019 - link
For start - the RAM management was a OS bug issue that was fixed in ios 13.2.X release and surely in ios 13.3 that is current. Secondly the missing GFX option is because the DEVELOPER didn't update the game for the new iphone.I had the same problem with the main game I play - vainglory. While the screen is on paper the same as XS max (as resolution and size) - the game UI was horribly buggy and it stayed like that for 2 months till they released an update for that model support. Ofc you will not have problems in any app or such a slow reaction by all the devs - but it happens. Going without saying that after those first few months you will never have such problems in that phone lifetime even if it's 5-6 years.
Third - taking speed test g serious is a lol thing to do. With everything stated below I will not waste my time to go technical why it's not serious.
Btw, used android for 10 years (only high end phones) till I switched to the pro max + I have highly technical background as education, hobby and work - especially in the field of electronics and computers.
Also talking how a chip that even didn't see a release, is better/worse vs X - hahahah :) Not to mention on what usage it's based.
Lastly - my iphone doesn't heat at all even in the heaviest games that are A LOT more heavy than your mentioned pubg joke. Try running full pc civ 6 on your android phones or dead cells... oh, no civ 6 as the performance will be poor on later turns. Also still no dead cells because devs can't make it run good on android available SOCs. ;)
iphonebestgamephone - Saturday, December 28, 2019 - link
Civ 6, the game that runs on a 6s? Dead cells, a side scroller? The developers are targeting what, the lowest end android socs?cha0z_ - Monday, December 30, 2019 - link
The game runs, but how it will run on big map turn 200+ is another story. :)As for dead cells - this is actually quite common, people think the game is light simple gfx wise, because of the art style/decisions. Actually talked with the devs on that topic - everything is 3d and the game is not that light as you might think. As for your absurd last statement - every developer would target the lowest end as it will bring more potential customers.
Do you want to talk about the hundreds more ios exclusive apps? Or to list the recent android "great games" that are on ios from years? I can also tell you thing or two how much better is to develop for ios vs android, how easy is to optimise for 10 devices vs 100000 or even how decent is actually the GPU in the 6s given it's low resolution. Because on android a crap GPU is paired frequently with high resolution screen and defo atleast 1080p, but 1440 is also seen in the budget oriented phones. So the statement how the regular size iphone 6s can game in 2019 is kinda rushed.
iphonebestgamephone - Monday, December 30, 2019 - link
"As for your absurd last statement - every developer would target the lowest end as it will bring more potential customers." - no they dont. Look at grid autosport. Look at fortnite."Do you want to talk about the hundreds more ios exclusive apps? Or to list the recent android "great games" that are on ios from years? I can also tell you thing or two how much better is to develop for ios vs android, how easy is to optimise for 10 devices vs 100000 or even how decent is actually the GPU in the 6s given it's low resolution. Because on android a crap GPU is paired frequently with high resolution screen and defo atleast 1080p, but 1440 is also seen in the budget oriented phones. So the statement how the regular size iphone 6s can game in 2019 is kinda rushed" - you are pretty ignorant arent you? Do you really think all games run at the screens native resolution on android? Why do you think graphics options exist? Do you want to talk emulation? How easy it is to run emulators on android? How many more systems are available to emulate? I dont. Because comparing platforms wasnt the point. It was all about android phones being too weak to run those games you mentioned. The devs should make it available for the flagships atleast for now, if they really want to.
So your iphone never heats up? If you have gfxtool for pubg on ios, get it and put everything to max and run it. Because even at the ingame max settings i have seen iphone x heating up.
cha0z_ - Tuesday, December 31, 2019 - link
I am into android from the start + symbian before than and also senior member with dev/helping known devs with project @ xda. So thank you, I know enough about android.I know that the iphone X heat a lot, it was known design flaw with that phone (if you will point heating apple device, this will top out the list most likely). I am currently with iphone 11 pro max and it never heats even half what my exynos note 9 do (and the exynos note 9 is colder vs the snapdragon variant). It's the first iphone with cooling solution and it really do wonders, you can refer to Andrei's iphone review for deep dive into the matter.
I can play fortnite maxed at 60fps and no fps drops or whatever even after 2 hours of play without major heating and you are talking about PUBG maxed. :)
Ofc that heat will be there, but as you can also read in Andrei's articles/reviews - apple's A chips are leading in performance AND efficiency. The heat you will see coming from A13 will be less than what you will see from the current android SOCs and/or literally can play games smoother with higher quality GFX and with more FPS.
Almost none of the heavier games is running native on mobile, but also most are running on lower res/game details on android vs ios.
Emulation is cool, did a lot on android with it. Including fun stuff like running diablo 2 LOD latest patch on my note 9, believe me - it's playable with the spen when on the go, in home one mouse and the TV = you are good to go. Still, ported or developed games for mobile just works better and you have such a vast library nowdays with high quality games that you really don't need to revisit old classics on your phone. Actually on ios the situation is a lot better, you got a lot more paid apps there vs android.
Btw, I generally prefer android and can write x3 times longer post about what I love there, but if we are talking about gaming - ios is the device to go.